Slippery slopes aside for a moment. If you’re a strong advocate of free speech, as I consider myself— then there is, conceivably, speech that spoken in a specific time/place, that WOULD warrant this kind of action. Deportation.
What does naturalization mean, and is this motherfucker “naturalizing” to be an American? Or is he preying on our deeply held free speech beliefs to literally (yes, literally)promote terrorism?
What happens next, IS NOT YET WRITTEN. Remind me, if you would, a good example of the slippery slope argument. A time, when we rightly enforced a law, and then slid down said slope. The Red Scare(s), in the late stages, are (to me) examples of this. That’s a solid one. Lives were needlessly ruined, on very shaky grounds. That said, was there really nothing RED? Really NOTHING to be scared of at the time? And did we learn nothing, about how to judiciously draw those lines?
Could he say ANYTHING, and not deserve deportation?
If that all/\ sounds combative/contentious, it is in a most respectful way; and I am grateful to be having this conversation with you. It will refine my thinking on the matter. Thank you for engaging in it with me.
We don’t let communists in the country, we deport Nazi war criminals and actually other war criminals, we have rules and obligations that come with wanting to live in this country if you are not native born. This man wasn’t arrested because he stood on a street corner yelling to anyone who could hear him about his political views. He promoted violence which does lessen your free speech right , trespassed, denied the civil rights of Jewish students, attacked people and somehow doesn’t seem to have a job yet his wife is 8 months pregnant. Who is funding him? Where is his money coming from?
Would have had no problem denying this guy a visa (Presume his views werent that different when he came in.) So should be more checking tourist and student visas. And especially before giving out Green Cards.
When deporting guys - or stripping citizenship from naturalized citizens. I'm wearing when OSI achieved that re some of those Nazi War Criminals. (But only after court hearings and a process)
But my broader point wasn't intended to defend this guy. I don't and I wouldn't. It's on the issue of what might happen next. And after that. And expanding "just" from anti-Semites and terrorists to a whole slew of people with Green cards expressing their views which might upset the people in power. THAT is my central concern
but he is not a citizen and immigration law doesnt give him the same rights.
Well if you come here and your purpose is the destruction of this country, and our way of life which is what he advocates, they should be able to throw you out. Not that you simply disagree with actions of a political party. This is the distinction and it is a very easily identifiable one.
he also came at the time when the Biden admin was just letting anyone and everyone into the country. so what is 1 more antisemitic, antiamerican student?
Now I read that he ever even got a degree so was the student visa actually a camouflage for something else then? I want to know where his livelihood is coming from and who is funding him. I think that will tell us more about him than anything else
Unfortunately I think “we” can get “fucked” in a number of ways and from a variety of sources! (And anyway I’m not in favor of haters having “free reign” to say and do what they want. But there’s a ladder of steps: Removing from campus and legal prosecution in the US should be first. But there has to be a process gone through on case-by-case)
It seems I was a bit unclear. I meant murdered. As in Khalil and his friends would murder you just as quickly as they would me.
By the way, and non sarcastically, I do not think he needs to be prosecuted for anything. Legally, deportation is not a crime and punishment issue (Trumpian bullshit notwithstanding). Deportation is basically an administrative ruling based on immigration law rather than criminal law.
Respectfully, if the only problem were his views were disgusting ok. He was the face of make my the lives of American citizens, Jewish students and faculty at Columbia and Barnard for the last 18 months. He was extended an amazing courtesy by the citizens of the US to come live amongst us. How did he show his.gratiitude as a guest?
This is not a free speech issue, his actions spoke for him
He chose to represent a terrorist group that openly calls for the destruction of our country. As a citizen, I am allowed to do that. But are we not allowed to have standards regarding who allow to become citizens of this country? Are boundaries not permitted? If not, we may soon end up looking like the UK or Canada - and those are both cautionary tales today.
I think anyone at any organization probably has his or her own personal views and approaches! But I can only cite my piece in the Times of Israel immediately after my almost 40-years at AIPAC came to - what I might have felt was a premature! - end! "Saying Goodby to AIPAC…But Not to ‘The Cause’" https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/saying-goodby-to-aipac-but-not-to-the-cause/
Slippery slopes aside for a moment. If you’re a strong advocate of free speech, as I consider myself— then there is, conceivably, speech that spoken in a specific time/place, that WOULD warrant this kind of action. Deportation.
What does naturalization mean, and is this motherfucker “naturalizing” to be an American? Or is he preying on our deeply held free speech beliefs to literally (yes, literally)promote terrorism?
What happens next, IS NOT YET WRITTEN. Remind me, if you would, a good example of the slippery slope argument. A time, when we rightly enforced a law, and then slid down said slope. The Red Scare(s), in the late stages, are (to me) examples of this. That’s a solid one. Lives were needlessly ruined, on very shaky grounds. That said, was there really nothing RED? Really NOTHING to be scared of at the time? And did we learn nothing, about how to judiciously draw those lines?
Could he say ANYTHING, and not deserve deportation?
If that all/\ sounds combative/contentious, it is in a most respectful way; and I am grateful to be having this conversation with you. It will refine my thinking on the matter. Thank you for engaging in it with me.
We don’t let communists in the country, we deport Nazi war criminals and actually other war criminals, we have rules and obligations that come with wanting to live in this country if you are not native born. This man wasn’t arrested because he stood on a street corner yelling to anyone who could hear him about his political views. He promoted violence which does lessen your free speech right , trespassed, denied the civil rights of Jewish students, attacked people and somehow doesn’t seem to have a job yet his wife is 8 months pregnant. Who is funding him? Where is his money coming from?
These are fair points.
Would have had no problem denying this guy a visa (Presume his views werent that different when he came in.) So should be more checking tourist and student visas. And especially before giving out Green Cards.
When deporting guys - or stripping citizenship from naturalized citizens. I'm wearing when OSI achieved that re some of those Nazi War Criminals. (But only after court hearings and a process)
But my broader point wasn't intended to defend this guy. I don't and I wouldn't. It's on the issue of what might happen next. And after that. And expanding "just" from anti-Semites and terrorists to a whole slew of people with Green cards expressing their views which might upset the people in power. THAT is my central concern
but he is not a citizen and immigration law doesnt give him the same rights.
Well if you come here and your purpose is the destruction of this country, and our way of life which is what he advocates, they should be able to throw you out. Not that you simply disagree with actions of a political party. This is the distinction and it is a very easily identifiable one.
he also came at the time when the Biden admin was just letting anyone and everyone into the country. so what is 1 more antisemitic, antiamerican student?
Now I read that he ever even got a degree so was the student visa actually a camouflage for something else then? I want to know where his livelihood is coming from and who is funding him. I think that will tell us more about him than anything else
I sure hope that if his friends decide to do a pogrom here they read your posts first. Otherwise you're just as fucked as the rest of us.
Unfortunately I think “we” can get “fucked” in a number of ways and from a variety of sources! (And anyway I’m not in favor of haters having “free reign” to say and do what they want. But there’s a ladder of steps: Removing from campus and legal prosecution in the US should be first. But there has to be a process gone through on case-by-case)
It seems I was a bit unclear. I meant murdered. As in Khalil and his friends would murder you just as quickly as they would me.
By the way, and non sarcastically, I do not think he needs to be prosecuted for anything. Legally, deportation is not a crime and punishment issue (Trumpian bullshit notwithstanding). Deportation is basically an administrative ruling based on immigration law rather than criminal law.
For his actions, not his opinions.
Check out Matt Taibbi on taking millions from ivy league universities https://www.racket.news/p/the-angst-of-the-well-endowed?r=7kv48&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Respectfully, if the only problem were his views were disgusting ok. He was the face of make my the lives of American citizens, Jewish students and faculty at Columbia and Barnard for the last 18 months. He was extended an amazing courtesy by the citizens of the US to come live amongst us. How did he show his.gratiitude as a guest?
This is not a free speech issue, his actions spoke for him
He chose to represent a terrorist group that openly calls for the destruction of our country. As a citizen, I am allowed to do that. But are we not allowed to have standards regarding who allow to become citizens of this country? Are boundaries not permitted? If not, we may soon end up looking like the UK or Canada - and those are both cautionary tales today.
Is your (reasonable, IMO) approach to these issues part of the reason that you left AIPAC? Serious question.
I think anyone at any organization probably has his or her own personal views and approaches! But I can only cite my piece in the Times of Israel immediately after my almost 40-years at AIPAC came to - what I might have felt was a premature! - end! "Saying Goodby to AIPAC…But Not to ‘The Cause’" https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/saying-goodby-to-aipac-but-not-to-the-cause/